where there was a clear winner, mitt romney beat barack obama. that is not the case in this. melissa: i felt watching it last night sort of each side was nodding along and saying my guy did a great job, my guy won. it seemed very sort of even across the board. do you think that is a fair assessment? >> well i do. and i think that is the way most debates go. last week was a very rare instance. melissa, i will say this, at the same time, we're starting to see what obama's strategy is going to be next week. that is, don't let mitt romney get his rythym. that is what vice president was trying to do. and he did it very effectively. you're starting to see how they're adjusting to that defeat in the last week's debate. next week's debate should be very interesting. melissa: the vice-presidential debate doesn't really, it doesn't really do that much, right, unless, unless there's a knockout blow or unless somebody likes like they could not fulfill the role of president if a disaster were to happen, right? >> that is absolutely krebts. the thing about deb